331 How Routines Can Support Your Mental Health (rerun)

In this episode of "How Routines Can Support Your Mental Health," we explore the transformative power of routines in maintaining mental health, featuring guest Paul Marlow, a former athlete and mental health advocate. Paul shares his journey from a deep depression to recovery, emphasizing how structured morning and evening routines have been crucial for his mental well-being.

Paul discusses the importance of starting each day with small wins, such as making his bed, which builds confidence and sets a positive tone. He highlights the critical role of sleep, revealing how tracking his sleep patterns helped him understand and improve his rest, ultimately leading to better mental health.

The episode delves into Paul's specific routines, which include journaling, meditation, and mindful mornings without immediately reaching for his phone. Terry and Bridget echo the sentiment that even small accomplishments can have a significant impact on one’s mental state.

Additionally, Paul addresses the importance of therapy and self-care practices, like exercise and nutrition, framing them as essential components of a holistic approach to mental health. He encourages listeners to view therapy as a valuable tool for everyone, emphasizing that progress may include setbacks, but persistence is key.

Ultimately, the conversation underscores that everyone’s routines will differ, but finding what works for you—like Paul’s approach—can lead to improved mental health and a more fulfilling life.

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Transcript

331-How Routines Support Your Mental Health

Terry [00:00:04] Hello and welcome to the Giving Voice to Depression podcast brought to you by recovery.com. Each week we profile a guest who shares intimate details of their mental health journey they share because they understand that when people don't talk about their depression or other mental health conditions, those of us who struggle with them can feel like we're the only ones, that there's something wrong with us. Instead of understanding that we have a common and treatable illness. I'm Terry, the creator and co-host of this podcast. 

Anita [00:00:32] And I'm Dr. Anita Sanz, a licensed clinical psychologist with more than 25 years in clinical practice. I know from both personal and professional experience how significantly mental health and other disorders can impact not just our lives, but those around us as well. By speaking openly and with the wisdom of lived experience, we help normalize conversations that are often avoided due to shame or stigma. Our episodes are honest and real, and we keep them hopeful because there truly is hope despite what depression tells you. 

Terry [00:01:07] This podcast is brought to you by recovery.com, whose mission is to help each person find the best path to recovery through a comprehensive, helpful network of treatment providers for both mental health and addiction treatment worldwide. 

Terry [00:01:26] We record a couple new interviews each month and also replay some of our best ones from the archives so that newer listeners don't miss out on those. This one is from the early years when my sister Bridget co-hosted before Dr. Sanz. This episode was originally produced with sponsorship from the AB Korkor Foundation for Mental Health. 

Terry [00:01:46] Hi, Terrryi. Hello, Bridget. Two of the things about talking with our guests that we both agree have helped us the most, are hearing that no matter how low they've been brought by depression, they recover and rebound enough to be willing to share their stories with us all and that they share the wide variety of treatments and tools that help them return to and maintain better mental health- aids that might work for us as well. 

Bridget [00:02:13] Our guests have shared about music and hobbies that provided much needed distraction. How journaling helps get the ugly out. The value of online therapy and support groups, meds, calling warm lines and crisis lines when they needed to talk and be heard without judgment. Getting some sunlight. Spending some time in nature, , since no previous guest named it as a key part of their recovery journey. That all changed when we talked to Paul Marlow, who you may recall is a former athlete turned advocate that we profiled in our last episode. Paul uses very specific morning and evening routines to help himself stay on the healthy side of the mental health continuum as much as possible. 

Terry [00:03:07] Paul spent the better part of two years in that dark place that we think we will never crawl out of. And now that he has, Paul has devised those routines that he believes in and shares in the hopes of helping other people like himself- and like all of us. Here is Paul Marlow giving his voice to depression. 

Terry [00:03:33] While Paul freely shares the specifics of his daily habits, he notes they're what work for him. The mental health focused routines that work for you, he says, won't look the same. And that's okay. Paul finds value in starting each day with a win. 

Paul [00:03:50] When I was in that bad place- the dark place,- the down place, whatever you want to call it. I thought, there's the only way I'm going to get out of this is if I focus on, you know, the first time I wake up. If I can set something up where I can perhaps get a small win in the day, I'm all about small wins, somehow succeed in the day it's going to happen in the morning. So that is where I need to start focusing. And that's where I started focusing, creating a routine. And my routine looked like, you know, the usual making your bed. And making your bed was one win that I can do and I can like check it off my list. Like, okay, I created a win,  I did something on my list within the first minute. And mentally that is that is a win. That is a confidence builder, especially when you're not very confident with anything in your life. 

Terry [00:04:40] But morning wins, even little ones are a lot harder without the foundation of a good night's sleep. So that's where we'll begin. It won't surprise many of us to learn that research, including these statistics from the Harvard Medical School, consistently find that chronic sleep problems affect 50 to 80% of patients in a typical psychiatric practice, compared with 10 to 18% of adults in the general population. Sleep problems are particularly common in patients with anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder and ADHD. 

Paul [00:05:15] You see,  I can't pull myself throughout a day if I don't have sleep. Like I'm bad. Like I'm a big baby. If I don't get my sleep, I'm useless. It's kind of like me with drinking. If I'm a little hung over, I'm useless. I can't push through the day. So for me to work optimally, you know, working out for the day succeed in feeling happy, succeed in the growth of the business, succeed in other areas, I need to be optimal when I wake up. And that was more apparent when I finally realized how much sleep I wasn't getting during those two years. 

Terry [00:05:49] Those two years which Paul shared about in our last episode, were his darkes. One pivotal moment in them came when a former coach of his loaned him a sleep tracking watch that NFL and Major League Baseball teams use to improve player performance. 

Paul [00:06:06] And I had it on for like two weeks. And I like,  I started seeing the tracking. It would track  when I fell asleep, when I woke up, how deep the sleep was. And I started looking at it and I was waking up like 6 to 8 times a night. And then I was only getting around six hours of sleep. But then with that time of wake up, it was actually coming down to five hours of sleep. And the thing is, I had no idea. Like, you don't really know until you, like, see the numbers. You can guess all you want. The thing is, you're so used to it because it's who you are and what you've done. So it seems normal to you. But your normal  probably isn't healthy and probably isn't what you want to be optimal. But it's the only thing you've known because you've allowed yourself to get that way and you haven't checked up with it. So me checking up with that was huge. 

Terry [00:06:58] That understanding motivated Paul to create an evening routine designed to improve his sleep. 

Paul [00:07:06] I started journaling a bit at night. I tried meditation and I, you know, as anyone does with meditating, when they're not good at it, you just kind of sit there for a while. But it was helpful, even though it wasn't what I would call meditation, it was beneficial for what I needed. I stopped looking at my phone as much when I was in bed and then I stopped completely. 

Terry [00:07:26] And within 4 to 6 months... 

Paul [00:07:29] I turned that five hour sleep with eight wake ups to I think around seven hours sleep with two wake ups, and like that is huge.  That is a massive difference in your ability to rest and to repair your body and your brain and the ability to wake up and feel like, okay, let's tackle the day. And I think that was one of the key factors for me on finally one day waking up feeling like, Dang, I feel good, let's do this. And that was after two and a half years of never having that feeling. And it was because I was actually putting focus and putting  work into getting a better sleep. 

Terry [00:08:09] Waking actually feeling rested, provided Paul the foundation to build a morning routine that also supports his mental health. 

Paul [00:08:19] It took me a while to create this list. I started it off, I think I was around five minutes for the first 2 or 3 weeks and then built it up for ten minutes after the first month. And then slowly, I think within six months I had the routine down. But it entailed making my bed, ending my shower with a cold water blast around 20 to 30 seconds or whatever I could handle at the star. Sitting in quiet after kind in the morning or early morning, I wake up early. So it was like 6 a.m. and not many people were up yet,  sitting in the quiet with a hot lemon water. Just the hot water just to get my digestive system going because I'd realized the digestion was a big help in my mental health routine. 

Terry [00:09:06] To that, Paul added some journaling. 

Paul [00:09:09] Which took a long time to get used to. Journaling is not easy just to throw into your life and do consistently as well. 

Terry [00:09:16] He then does a bit of meditation. Says some positive affirmations and has this coffee. Only after he's done all that. He checks his phone for the first time. 

Paul [00:09:27] And that was one of the key factors out of all that not opening my phone.  Letting my brain slowly wake up as if you had a ocean and it was cold water. Would you rather slowly walk into it over like a five ten minute period, inch by inch? Or would you like to jump off the deep end every single morning and go, Wow, here I am. This is the world hitting me in the face. And I would rather walk into it slowly. And that was a crucial, crucial part of everything that was going on. 

Terry [00:10:01] A morning routine like Paul's requires a consistent and pretty significant time investment. When I was researching you and hearing about your morning routine and the amount of time it takes, it's really easy to think like, gosh, who's got 45 minutes in the morning? Or that's so, you know, that's so much time. But as I hear you describe it, I'm thinking how it could be time extraordinarily well spent if it sets you up for the rest of your entire day. 45 minutes passes anyway. It's not as if the time is somehow it just lasts a little longer for those of us who pick up their phone right away. 

Paul [00:10:39] That is amazing. So but you're right. Like, we already take that time anyways. Don't say you don't have the time. I know everyone does. And the thing is, a 45 minute is too long. Sure, go 30. But also, think about it this way. What if you just wake up 15 (50?)  Minutes earlier? Like if you're waking up and just grabbing your phone, grabbing a bagel and flying off to work within 15 minutes. Then does that mean you don't have time to create a routine? Or are you just not allowing yourself to give yourself that extra 45 minutes, which you could just make up on the back and go to sleep 30 minutes earlier, wake up 30 minutes earlier, and then you have that time. I'm an old personal trainer. I hate excuses, and I'm good at finding ways to add some extra time in. 

Terry [00:11:24] So those are some of the things, the tools if you will, that Paul is able to access and use on his own. But his mental health recovery required some outside help, too, including therapy. 

Paul [00:11:37] Yeah, therapy therapy was a tough one for me, as I believe it is for everyone.  When I remember my ex asking me to go to couples therapy and I was like, I laughed. I scoffed at it. I said, Why would we do that? And I'm pretty sure I said, therapy's for weak people. And that was me at 28. So I'm only 36 now, so it's only eight years later and I'm a much changed man on that though on what therapy is. 

Terry [00:12:07] So changed, in fact, that he applies, that hates-excuses attitude to this self-care tool as well. 

Paul [00:12:14] If you're listening to this, you're like, Nah, therapy is not for me. Like, I get it. I was there. But I promise you, therapy is for you. No matter who you are. Let's boil it down. Like, what is therapy? Usually it's talk therapy. That's the major form that I know of. And what is talk therapy? It's talking. Therapy is literally just talking, like I'm having conversation with you right now, Terry. It is just going back and forth, sussing out ideas, thoughts, worries, stress. Having a conversation back and forth. The thing is, the person you're talking to is a professional. They know how to maybe navigate a situation, kind of lead you down a path that they think might be helpful  to you, or else it'll just help you open up to your own path and your own conversations. 

Terry [00:13:06] The hard part, Paul says, is the truth required to make therapy effective. 

Paul [00:13:12] Honest conversations is the hard part. That's, I think, the reason why therapy is so hard. And it's not looked on in a light where people use it often. It's hard to have an honest conversation about your faults and weaknesses, as I never did in the past. That's why I didn't go. I think it's easier for me to go to therapy now because I'm more open to talking about the things where I've failed and I've lost and I'm afraid of. They're very hard to do. It's a very tough thing to do. 

Terry [00:13:43] Is it fear? Is it fear of, you know, really looking at your stuff or is it. 

Paul [00:13:49] For me, it was fear. I was afraid of hearing those things which were already going around inside my head being put out into vocal form. Like thinking something and actually hearing yourself say it is two separate things. And having someone else hear it after and someone confirmed that you said tha, is also another fear. 

Terry [00:14:11] Therapists also hear and confirm our progress and our wins. 

Paul [00:14:17] People need to know as you don't just talk about the shitty things. You talk about good things. You talk about positive things. I had a  therapy session last night and there was all positive, because things are going so well. And it's also very therapeutic and helpful for you to go and talk about and brag about everything you're doing and not feeling like a braggart or egotistic and showing someone that this is a success  I'm having my life now, finally, and this is where I plan to take it. And this is what I looked like two years ago and was nothing like this. That is also a great therapy session. That is where I've come to in that journey with therapy. But it was it was a tough thing for me. It was definitely opening up, talking about those tough times and talking about how I felt, which was horrible. 

Terry [00:15:05] That journey, Paul admits, included some starts and stops, like many of ours do. 

Paul [00:15:11] And I did, like anyone else, I did fall off. Like I went (to therapy) for four weeks and then I didn't go for a month. And then I booked in one week and I would cancel and I'd say, I don't have the money or something. And yeah, that's just like anything. It's going to happen , no matter if you hire a personal trainer, if you start your own business, like anything you do, you commit to it, you're going to have days where you don't show up the way you wanted. And this is normal. But the idea is that you have to keep going. You need to step back on the horse like you would do with your fitness routine or your diet routine. Don't let it fall off. And once you can do that and look at it as a personal help, looking at on the same level as physical health and diet and eating health. There's no real difference to me. Once you can do that and you put them on the same level, then then you'll get it. Then you'll start making changes. I think that's what society and humanity need to do also. We need to stop putting therapy on this separate pedestal because it's not. It's not at all. 

Terry [00:16:16] Nutrition and exercise are two of the other pillars of Paul's self-care routine, because they benefit not only the way he looks and feels. ..

Paul [00:16:25] But is also great for your brain and your confidence, which helps your brain and your ability to push yourself in an area which then you can use as kind of a pillar or a blueprint to help yourself push yourself in a mental health area. That's what I do with all of my fitness. 

Terry [00:16:49] So when Paul is pushing on say a rowing machine, and feels like slowing down or quitting but keeps going, he stores that experience in his arsenal to pull out when he's struggling in a different way. 

Paul [00:17:03] When I go to the gym and I really push myself, it gets a point of like anxiety and fear. Like, why am I still going at this level? I could just slow down for the last five seconds because this feels very uncomfortable to me. Then I think, well, that anxiety that I felt the last week, the depression that was uncomfortable for me to do, and if I could just hold on and push through and find a way to kind of welcome that fear, then I can put them on. I like I achieved that. I went through. I did that. I feel good. 

Terry [00:17:34] And that belief, that knowing that we are capable of doing hard things works in the other direction too. 

Paul [00:17:42] When everything comes on and I do have some a bout a depression or a bad time, I can think back on  no I pushed through this, I did this. It might not get rid of it. It may not put it away, but it gives me a boost of confidence that I can achieve something that seems so impossible at the time. And that's a lot of how I look at fitness at this time for me. 

Terry [00:18:05] The final pillar of Paul's routines for a healthier life involves healthier eating and drinking habits. 

Paul [00:18:12] I'm not that guy, don't get me wrong. I had, like, a gin last night. I drink wine. I still eat food and enjoy life. But I do recognize after I have some of those meals, I do feel down. And it's not down because I'm like, my body is going to look bad. No,  I mentally get into a bit of a rut. And I have to like, think, okay, this is fine. This is just the sugar kicking in. This is just that carb that wasn't processed and is full of sugar and stuff that probably isn't even food that my gut isn't digesting and I'm just got to work my way through it. Or I'm a little hangover this morning, that's why I don't didn't have a good sleep, and I didn't do these things because I chose to put this in my body last night for fun. And I'm, you know, I'm paying for it now. The way our body and our brain, and our gut interact with what we put into it is huge. And it's not talked about a lot. And I think it's also hindered due to people wanting to live life quotations and enjoy it things and do that. like I get it, do that. But at the same time have an honest conversation with yourself and how is it affecting you mentally by putting these things in your body so consistently. That's that's where we make the change. 

Bridget [00:19:32] I like that notion of small wins, Paul. They really do bolster one's spirit. You know, it's like you're cheering yourself on for these small, attainable goals. And that ultimately changes the self-talk, which is kind of, in my opinion, these days, the name of the game. 

Terry [00:19:49] Absolutely. And I, you know, have heard from a number of psychologists and psychiatrists that your body really doesn't know the difference between, you know, if it was making your bed and what he called a small win or something that you, you know, would naturally take great pride in that your body sort of - is metabolize the right word? You know them the same way so that you get that little boost. 

Bridget [00:20:10] Yeah. That notion of of pushing oneself, it helps you kind of redefine your limit, you know? And again, that changes your he uses the word Paul uses the word confidence a lot. And you know, when you're redefining your limits and realizing you're actually more than you thought you were two minutes ago, that's the right direction. That's a good thing. 

[00:20:33] We're Capable of doing hard things. And when you have depression, you're called upon to do them because you've got to keep going. 

Bridget [00:20:37] Because everything's hard. 

Terry [00:20:38] Everything's hard because everything's hard. Exactly. Paul has a great online resource that he's created if you want to learn more. It's called WeAreNeverAlone.co and it has a whole lot of things that you can read, including two blogs very specifically about both his morning and his evening routines. So you can get more information about the science behind it and his reasoning behind it and ways that it can be adapted that might work for you. So thank you, Paul. We appreciate your time and sharing what works for you. And I have to admit, I have not rolled over and opened my phone since we had the conversation. So it has already had an impact on me. And I will continue to try to do more things that are going to help me stay out of that pit. 

Anita [00:21:28] We truly hope that our podcast brings a little more understanding, helps you better articulate and reflect on your own experience with depression, or better understand how to support someone else who is struggling. 

Terry [00:21:41] If this episode has been of comfort or value to you know that there are hundreds of others like it in our archive, which you can easily find at our website. Giving voice to depression.com. And remember if you are struggling, speak up. Even if it's hard if someone else is struggling, take the time to listen.