330_The Many Ways Depression Changes Us (rerun)

In this episode of the "Giving Voice to Depression" podcast, we introduce guest Paul Marlow, who shares his journey through depression and mental health challenges. Paul, an athletic and confident individual, experienced a significant decline in his mental health after a series of traumatic events starting in 2017. He describes grappling with PTSD, anxiety, and profound feelings of emptiness, detailing how these conditions often went unnoticed by those around him.

Paul's story highlights the stigma associated with mental illness, as he illustrates how his outward appearance contradicted his internal struggles. He candidly recounts moments of despair, such as crying in the shower and feeling a complete lack of joy for years. Despite these challenges, Paul emphasizes the importance of honesty, both with oneself and others, in the healing process.

Throughout the discussion, Paul reflects on the transformative nature of his experience, acknowledging that while it was difficult, it ultimately led to personal growth and a deeper understanding of himself. He credits his recovery to establishing a morning routine, focusing on nutrition, exercise, and therapy, which helped him regain confidence and manage his mental health more effectively.

The episode concludes with an acknowledgment of the importance of open conversations about mental health and an invitation for listeners to learn more about Paul's methods in a future episode. Overall, the discussion aims to normalize the experience of depression and encourage individuals to seek help and share their stories.

Learn more about Paul and the resources he's created: https://weareneveralone.co/

https://recovery.com/
https://givingvoicetodepression.com/

Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/GivingVoiceToDepression/
X (formerly Twitter): https://x.com/VoiceDepression
Dr. Anita Sanz's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-anita-sanz-746b8223/
Terry's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/givingvoicetodepression/

Transcript

330-The Many Ways Depression Changes Us

Terry [00:00:04] Hello and welcome to the Giving Voice to Depression podcast brought to you by recovery.com. Each week we profile a guest who shares intimate details of their mental health journey they share because they understand that when people don't talk about their depression or other mental health conditions, those of us who struggle with them can feel like we're the only ones, that there's something wrong with us. Instead of understanding that we have a common and treatable illness. I'm Terry, the creator and co-host of this podcast. 

Anita [00:00:32] And I'm Dr. Anita Sanz, a licensed clinical psychologist with more than 25 years in clinical practice. I know from both personal and professional experience how significantly mental health and other disorders can impact not just our lives, but those around us as well. By speaking openly and with the wisdom of lived experience, we help normalize conversations that are often avoided due to shame or stigma. Our episodes are honest and real, and we keep them hopeful because there truly is hope despite what depression tells you. 

Terry [00:01:07] This podcast is brought to you by recovery.com, whose mission is to help each person find the best path to recovery through a comprehensive, helpful network of treatment providers for both mental health and addiction treatment worldwide. 

Anita [00:01:26] We record a couple of new interviews each month, and we also replace some older ones so that our newer listeners don't miss out on some of our best ones. And here's one from the early years when Terry Sister Bridget co-hosted. 

Terry [00:01:39] This episode, was originally produced with sponsorship from the AB Korkor  Foundation for Mental Health. 

Bridget [00:01:46] Hello, Terry. 

Terry [00:01:47] Hi, Bridget. So I want to start this episode with a little story from my life before this podcast. I was what's called a voiceover and video talent four decades after leaving news. And one job I had was a commercial for, I don't know what was an antidepressant or a treatment facility. I don't really remember the product details. But what I do remember is that it was one of those ads that you see all the time on TV with two friends having a serious conversation over a cup of coffee. In the script, I described my mood depressed and said I thought I might need some help for it. And the other talent was supposed to respond that I should try whatever the commercial was for. But here's the strange part. When we showed up for the shoot, we did wardrobe and makeup and everything and then sat down at the little table and the director said, Switch roles. She looks more like she'd have depression than you do. 

Bridget [00:02:40] My gosh. 

Terry [00:02:41]  Like there's a look. She, Laura was her name is an extremely talented actor described in reviews with phrases like showstopper. I have no idea if she had depression or not, but I know I did. And based solely on our appearances that day, they made the switch. Suddenly, I was comforting and advising my poor friend with depression, hours after I'd taken my morning vitamins and my antidepressant. But I didn't say a word.  Stigma,  you know, I hadn't thought about that in decades, but it popped into my head as we were preparing today's episode. 

Bridget [00:03:17] That's probably because today's guest, Paul Marlow, also has a look that isn't the Eeyore-like stereotype of a depressed person. Paul was, in his words, a fairly confident guy. He's fit in a was-a-personal-trainer kind of way and athletic in a drafted-by-the-Toronto-Blue-Jays before choosing to play both baseball and basketball in college way. And all that changed when a number of really challenging life events and losses hit him one after the next, after the next. Paul says the heart racing fear of PTSD and the constant anxiety that accompanied it, left him in a place he'd never been. A very broken place. A place he now speaks about candidly and shamelessly on his website, social media accounts, and in this episode. Here is Paul Marlow giving his voice to depression. 

Terry [00:04:24] Paul's descent into depression's  Deep Dark Pit started in 2017. Two years later, he was speaking publicly about it and he did not tiptoe into the arena. His first Instagram post was a video of him crying. 

Paul [00:04:42] Like it's hard. It's hard to do that. I had to, like, prep myself. And then during it, I had to, like, really think about it. And afterwards it was like 30 minutes of overthinking what was going to happen. 

Terry [00:04:54] What has happened since has been nothing short of a personal transformation- of Paul's work, his understanding of mental health and of himself as a person. That's a hell of a stew. When you're dealing with anxiety, depression, PTSD, the grief of loss of a relationship, the grief of loss of a parent.  I don't know how you would detangle that to know what was what, other than that the sum total of it must have been horrible. How do you describe that? 

Paul [00:05:24] I didn't know how to at the time. I still don't know. Looking back, there were a lot of angles, like you just said there that were bombarding me. What was it like. I remember waking up multiple days, multiple days, multiple months to a bunch of missed phone calls and texts at night or waking up middle of the night seeing them and then falling back asleep. I'm pretty sure my heart rate was running at like 110 the majority of the time, especially even when I was sleeping, just due to worry about something was going to happen. 

Terry [00:05:58] That was his nighttime experience. It did not improve with the dawn of new days. 

Paul [00:06:05] And when that would happen, I would wake up and then I'd go to the shower and I remember showering,  because I'd shower right away, and like crawling up into a ball and crying and putting my head against the wall, like, what is happening? Why is this happening to me? How did I get here? And like that literally months of that. Daily. And then getting up, shaking myself off, drying myself up and getting some breakfast in me and clothes on and plodding my way to work to make it through a workday because I had to pay the bills. 

Terry [00:06:39] Think about passing Paul on the street after he left his house. You would never know what he just battled through. You couldn't. That quote reminding us to be kind to each other comes to mind. The one that says, remember, people don't fake mental illness. They fake being well. 

Paul [00:06:57] I would then go and I come back home and as I'd walk home, I wouldn't look anyone in the eye. And I would be staring at the bottom of the building walls just so that didn't happen. And my hands would be twitching and my eyes would be running back and forth really fast- that's what happens when I really feel anxious. And I'd be like, counting down the blocks until I could get into my apartment again and be away from everything. 

Terry [00:07:22] Away from everything except depression's effects, which he couldn't avoid. 

Paul [00:07:28] Yeah, those things were bad. The biggest thing was like, I had zero happiness, absolute zero, no joy. Like nothing made me excited and nothing made me happy for probably two and a half years. I never woke up in the morning feeling like, okay, let's take on the day. This feels good. My body never felt good after sleep. I mean, we can talk about the sexual desire and sexual effects that happens from depression from long term. That definitely wasn't happening anything in my life like that. So, yeah, it was just a bombardment on all senses. Still, is somewhat of a bombardment. 

Terry [00:08:05] Let's talk about that. I know the word is anhedonia and it's an inability to experience joy. It's not that we are ignoring the joyful things in our lives or that they no longer exist. It's an actual inability to experience them. I don't think people who don't have depression understand that. 

Paul [00:08:26] Yeah, no, it's not. And I don't blame them. It's pretty hard to understand. Most likely some time in your week, something is going to make you happy. Either it is like you get a text from a girl or a guy you didn't expect or or even like a great workout and get that endorphin high. All those things that just happened in your life where you're just like, put a smile on your face. Like, okay, I achieved that. I did that. I got a small win or I just feel great. What's next? We're so used to it. Like these things just happen throughout the day. No matter if you don't think you get happy, I'm pretty sure there's something going on that made you just go, okay,  a little endorphin kick.  I feel good right now. It is a very weird thing to lose. 

Terry [00:09:08] It's also weird, Paul says, how such a significant and impactful loss can happen unnoticed, even by ourselves. 

Paul [00:09:18] You don't think about it- like one of the last time I smiled?  But I was more like, you know, a year and a half down the road where I was like, Dang, I haven't been happy. Like, there's nothing. Like me just chuckling right now, and like, that's not happy. But that's me, like understanding and laughing at the experience. I wouldn't have done that. I hadn't been able to have that chuckle  come out on something. That was so different than what I was used to from my first 28 years of life. 

Terry [00:09:49] What were you like before? 

Paul [00:09:52] Well, the old me, I know that I'm not actually proud or happy with the old me either. So I am actually, there is a big silver lining to all that has happened. I have grown as a human. I'm much happier with who I am now. So there is a positive angle to this. Who I was before? I wasn't this guy. I would never have started this and spoken openly to you, I can tell you that, Terry. I would never have admitted my faults. I wouldn't have even admitted them to myself.   I was still the athlete and I still understood that my height and my body could be a way for me to create something. And that's all I had. And that's all I thought I had. 

Terry [00:10:37] Paul or Tall Paul, as he's known on social media, is six foot seven. So it's easy to see how he could have felt defined or perhaps confined by his physicality. 

Paul [00:10:49] So I didn't have any confidence in achieving and learning new things because I was too afraid to fail. That was the biggest thing in my life. Prior to all this, I was too afraid to take a chance and fail because I thought people would judge me and I also thought I failed them. What was the point of trying? I was just going to fail. Right now I love failing because I'm trying new things and I'm learning and I can adapt and grow. So yeah, the old me was a totally different dude and I'm pretty happy he's gone. 

Terry [00:11:22] You know, it's the Phoenix rising from the ashes and being a different and a better version of yourself. 

Paul [00:11:27] Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. 

Terry [00:11:33] How often do you get depressed now? How often would you describe yourself as depressed? 

Paul [00:11:37] Things are really good right now. The last time I got depressed, which I didn't think was going to happen- Christmas. I hate Christmas. I'm not too sure why, but there's a major depressive funk that happens with me. Not this Christmas, but 2 to 3 before. It was essentially when December 1st to December 27th, I was in a depressed mood, as in barely could get work done. Hopefully I'd work out, drank a lot more to feel a little bit of happiness, ate a lot worse food to get that sugar high and that little happiness kick. Even though those things work negatively really long term for you, I was still like, Screw it, I'm doing this. It's the holidays. Luckily, this year didn't happen anywhere near as long. It didn't happen till the 11th. And I was like, this is great. I'm not going to have it this year. Fourth year now, and I'll be like, I'm finally done with this depressive state. 

Terry [00:12:33] Remember a few minutes ago when Paul talked about how slowly his loss of happiness and joy crept in? Well, his depression in December had a very different pacing. 

Paul [00:12:44] And then all of a sudden it literally just kicked him one day out of nowhere. I was walking home from work. I'm like I feel weird. I'm like, yo,this thing is back. And like, back as in the state where it's like, I don't want to look anyone in the eye, don't wanna have a conversation. I start twitching. I start looking around, running to hide from groups and it like happened within minutes. And it stayed with me for probably six days. And then it started easing off, which was brand new. I hadn't had that before. Usually it was the 27th and life  just flips on and I'm like happy again. So let's just say that was a lot shorter because of all the work I've done. And I was able to deal with it better. While before that, like 2020, it was definitely a few times a month. In 2019, it was every second day. So, yeah. 

Terry [00:13:42] You mentioned that you think that part of the reason you have fewer of these days is because of the work you've done. When you say that, what do you mean? 

Paul [00:13:51] My work in finding my way out of that really depressed state is obviously the cornerstone of it. And my work for getting out of that was finding a morning routine that helped me and allowed me to spend 45 minutes on myself after I woke up before I did anything else, which I'd never had in my life before. It was going to therapy maybe multiple times a week. It was putting more focus on my what I ate and my working out and my sleep. Like, those were the five main areas that I worked on and were a big, big part of changing. However, though, there's more to that. As those grow, I get more confident and I think with confidence and everything and just me as a human, the biggest area of growth for me is speaking honestly and open. Not even to you, but to myself. 

Terry [00:14:47] Paul describes that growth, his growth, as a slow and difficult process that is well worth the effort. 

Paul [00:14:55] And it took months, to years to get comfortable really just being honest and open and talking to people and just not bullshitting them or myself. And yeah, those those things have helped me the most. 

Terry [00:15:10] I've never put it in these words. But as I'm hearing you talk, I'm thinking of a facade. And I'm wondering if yeah, yeah. If depression, it strips us down completely. And I wonder if maybe when we come back and we're picking up some of those pieces, it's like, you know what? I'm not going to put that one back on.  That that wasn't even real. That wasn't authentic. Is that was ii a stripping process for you as well? 

Paul [00:15:39] No. Well, it wasn't a stripping because I completely went from like fully guarded facade, faking everything, to completely broken down. It would have been harder for me to be honest with you I'm glad- I'm not glad, but I wouldn't have done this myself without the hardship. I wouldn't have changed, I don't think, without what happened in those two years. Those two years made my facade and made everything- all the walls I had built up around me come down and a one massive crash. Or they came down during the time of heartbreak and hardship and immensely hard day after day after day after day, it was more picking up a new version of me. That was where the work came in for me. It was more, okay, I'm on this new path. I'm trying to get better. I'm trying to do these things. Perhaps the old me wasn't the right way because it put me here. What if I had done this differently? What I had, you know, gone to therapy before this? What if I had, you know, done these things and focused on these paths and done these visions? So let's try the new things that I keep hearing people talk about that is good for them that I keep hear about on podcasts and reading in books. Let me mimic what they're doing and then adapt it to what works really well for me. And that was that was the start of it. That was really the vision of building back up again. 

Bridget [00:17:14] I so appreciate that, Pau. Because the candor that you used to describe that, that stripping, as Terry called it, or the walls coming down, as you referred to it as, and then that building back up is is a piece that I personally am choosing to focus on in this new year. So it's, you know, what pieces are we going to pick up? Are we going to look at each one before we reintegrate them? Is there even a level of consciousness in that moment of of climbing out to make that possible? How can I increase the odds of that likelihood? But hearing you talk about your journey and your process through that journey is inspiring. Thank you. 

Terry [00:17:58] And I also really appreciated the emphasis and the awareness of the power of being honest, as he said, not just with someone else when we share our story, but with ourselves about what our story actually is. 

Bridget [00:18:13] Exactly. So that's where we're going to start today's episode with Paul. But he has so much more to teach us that we'll be doing a second episode with him that will focus on those lifestyle changes that have made impactful differences in his life and mental health. The things that some of us certainly me, might benefit from learning about, including establishing a routine on how he begins and ends every day nutrition, sleep and exercise. If you'd like to learn more about Paul, check out his website at We Are Never Alone.co. 

Terry [00:18:50] Thanks, Paul, and thank you, Bridget. 

Anita [00:18:57] We truly hope that our podcast brings a little more understanding, helps you better articulate and reflect on your own experience with depression, or better understand how to support someone else who is struggling. 

Terry [00:19:10] If this episode has been of comfort or value to you know that there are hundreds of others like it in our archive, which you can easily find at our website. Giving voice to depression.com. And remember if you are struggling, speak up. Even if it's hard if someone else is struggling, take the time to listen.